Publish Date: November 21, 2023 | Total Runtime: 34:16
Host: Todd Snitchler, President and CEO, Electric Power Supply Association
Guest: Willie Phillips, Chairman, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
[Energy Solutions theme music plays.]
Todd Snitchler, President and CEO, Electric Power Supply Association:
Last Christmas, Winter Storm Elliott surprised the East Coast with record cold temperatures, heavy snowfall, and enormous impacts to the electric system and power generators. Now, winter is upon us, and the one-year anniversary of that storm is coming. Many are asking if America’s power grid is ready.
That question is top of mind for this episode’s guest, Chairman Willie Phillips, who heads the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
You’re listening to Energy Solutions, a podcast from the Electric Power Supply Association, where we talk with experts about the changing electric system.
I’m your host, Todd Snitchler.
As one of the nation’s top energy regulators, Chairman Phillips is working on a range of issues impacting the power system. That includes infrastructure development and streamlining to meet growing energy demand, making sure the system can weather extreme heat and cold, and prioritizing environmental justice.
But as you’ll hear, reliability remains the top priority. Here’s Chairman Phillips.
[Energy Solutions theme music plays.]
Todd Snitchler: Chairman Phillips, I want to thank you very much for joining us today here on the EPSA podcast and for your important work in leading the Commission. I figure we’ll just jump right into the deep end of the pool. You joined at the Commission when it seems there’s more going on with the electric system than in the past. There’s more attention being paid to the electric system than perhaps in the past.
And perhaps we’re facing more challenges now than we have had in the past.
What’s your top priority since joining the Commission?
Willie Phillips, Chairman, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission: Well, you know, I talk about it a lot and I’m sure a lot of you can say it with me as I say it out there in podcast land, but you know, since I took over as chair, I said from day one, reliability is and must always be job number one. That’s my philosophy as a regulator. That has been my philosophy for almost 10 years now.
I would also include in that environmental justice. I do believe that this Commission – and a lot of people talk about it being a divided Commission – has done more to address the concerns of environmental justice communities than any other Commission in the history of FERC.
And the last thing really is transmission reform. That has been top of mind for us. We issued a historic rule regarding interconnection queue reform, which I’m sure we’re probably going to talk about a little bit today. But that and sustainability. Those are the three things – the big buckets that I would use to round out my priorities.
Todd Snitchler: Do you think that there’s more public attention on the Commission’s work because of the importance of the things you just mentioned? Is it just, people are more aware? What do you kind of attribute the greater public attention to FERC’s work but to state – I mean, you and I are both former state regulators as well. The public pays attention to state regulatory work in ways that they haven’t in the past, what would you attribute that?
Willie Phillips: You know, I think there are a couple things. First, this is a pocketbook issue for many of our consumers. This hits our businesses. It hits our residents all over the country the same and we’ve seen, quite frankly, rises in prices, and that leads me to the second point.
Probably the most significant thing that has happened since I became a FERC Commissioner has been the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the ripple effects that that has had – that conflict has had on global energy markets around the globe. We’re feeling that here at home. Our friends and allies are feeling that abroad.
I’d also say the clean energy transition has just continued to gain momentum. If you talk to most customers, they’ll tell you, and with their studies out here to back this up, 7 out of 10 customers want some form of their energy to come from clean and renewable sources. This drives decision making. You know, this drives policy. And it’s a reality on the ground. When you look at so many different states that have you know, renewable portfolio standards, renewable energy mandates. And the market, it’s also driving the market.
Todd Snitchler: Yeah, we are on the receiving end of many of those signals as you well know. So, we’ll get to that in a second. But I want to talk a little bit as we’re about to experience the real feel of Fall I think, this weekend, as we’re recording the temperature is supposed to go down quite a bit. People’ll be having their fires outside and feel like it’s actually going to cool off a bit, but we’re coming off a record-breaking summer in a lot of parts of the country where there was extended heat. We had weather events in Canada in particular, with wildfires that affected you know, air quality, amongst other issues here in the United States. In your view more broadly to start and then we’ll dig in a little bit, how do you think the system performed?
Willie Phillips: So I, you know, I was in many parts of the country this summer. I was down in Texas. In New England, we’ve been all over. It really has been across the country, we’ve experienced this extreme heat, this extreme weather. When you ask about how the grid performed, I think overall, when you look at performance to past years, I think the grid has performed as – pretty well. We haven’t seen the large-scale blackouts that we’ve seen in past summers and that’s a good thing.
But to be clear, NERC warned us earlier in the year, with their summer assessment that 2/3 of the country was at risk for extreme weather and potential blackouts. We didn’t see that. But that – what led NERC to have that report, those underlying issues, they still remain. So, we have to continue to be focused. We have to continue to be vigilant in our approach at FERC to make sure
Todd Snitchler: Did any vulnerabilities or strengths stand out to you? I mean, were there any things that you go, it looks like people responded well to the warnings? Or were there things where you go, “Ah, you know, as a regulator here, I’m concerned about some things,” that maybe didn’t go as well as you thought they should?
Willie Phillips: Well, I mean, I think sort of to answer your question in the opposite way.
Todd Snitchler: OK.
Willie Phillips: The fact that there were no major outages on the system. That right there, you can’t underscore how important that was. And what I believe led to that is the ability for us to integrate more renewables into the system in a way that could be managed better.
We also saw the performance of a lot of our thermal resources show up in places like Texas where you know, things were really, really tight for a long time.
That interplay of our resource mix – I think that that’s where the attention needs to be. And I know we’re probably going to talk about resource retirements a little more later, but I think that is the one concern that I think stretches over all seasons when we talk about the how the system performs.
Todd Snitchler: Yeah, we’ll try to avoid going too much into the nerdery around this. But the shift from Southern summer to winter peaks and what that might mean for the system are going to have real impacts and we can decide if we want to go down to that level of detail or not. This audience probably could handle that level of discussion.
But you brought up winter and I think you’re right. Because as we now are moving out of summer and into the winter season, but different, a different set of dynamics are at play. Reliability still remains paramount, but notably FERC and others have been studying events that occurred last winter during Winter Storm Elliott over the Christmas holiday and of course we’re expecting the final report to come out sometime later this month, I think, if I heard correctly at the Open meeting. So, could you share at a high level what some of your takeaways are based on what you know about what was shared at the meeting and what your views are based on the performance of the system last winter?
Willie Phillips: You know, taking a step back, one of the things that really stands out for me from the report is that this is the 5th time in 11 years that we’ve had a winter storm that resulted in significant outages on our system. That is clearly unacceptable from a reliability of the system perspective. The NERC-FERC joint report, which will be out soon as you noted, it has recommendations.
And you know, what, what really just burns me, is that I worked on the first storm, you know, 11 years ago when I was at NERC. And the recommendations that we put out there. And so many of these recommendations are still very similar. We have to figure out a way to solve for planning for these events. And we know when they happen. They’re only a few days out of the year, right? Oftentimes they’re around holidays, holiday or long weekends, where we have this mismatch in how we procure our resources for the system and how we plan.
And so, one thing that the report pointed out as well is the need for more gas-electric coordination. We had a NAESB report as well that came out that pointed out the same thing.
I’ve been on record saying that we need to have an organization that sits at the apex of where our gas and electric systems meet and that has authority over the reliability of the gas system in particular. Now I want to be clear here on everybody to relax. It doesn’t have to be FERC, OK? It can be someone else, but there’s no doubt in my mind that we have a reliability gap and that we need someone to step into that gap.
Todd Snitchler: I empathize and sympathize with that point, as I was the first in a prior role when we had the polar vortex roll through on two consecutive years in Ohio and the Mid-Atlantic states. And of course, that was a significant situation, one of the five events that you are referencing, and certainly I know that then FERC Commissioner Moeller and I did a lot of talking about trying to address many of the things that you just noted, and here we are. So, we share some of your frustration in the fact that we have been talking about this – I think Jim Robb uses the phrase “navel gazing.” We’ve done enough of that. It’s time for us to get to solutions. So, we hope to bring some of those to your attention and maybe have a conversation about how we might tackle some of those.
So, as we think about other challenges that are ahead for the power system both this winter and you know in the future, how do you think about regions of the country that are situated differently than others? And New England, of course, always comes to mind when we think about it. It’s at the end of the pipe. So, if we could build more infrastructure, there’s still going to be at the end. There’s no production there unlike the Marcellus or in Texas and Utica and Ohio and what have you. How are you thinking about some of the challenges that exist both now and in the coming years, as we see the, as you describe it, the energy transition. I always like to use the phrase energy expansion, because I think we’re going to need more, so transition says, suggests that we’re going to just eliminate some things. And I think over time, that may be the case. But for the foreseeable future, we’re going to get a lot more electricity, especially if we’re going to start to electrify in the way that we see a lot of the policymakers wanting us to do. So, how are you thinking about some of those things?
Willie Phillips: It’s interesting. I think we have a lot of different varying opinions on how to approach this issue.
Todd Snitchler: Yeah.
Willie Phillips: I think you’re right. For me, and a lot of people, I think the focus is on infrastructure. We need more infrastructure and I think we can all agree that we need infrastructure of all kinds. And we can all agree that we need to come together right now in this moment and build big things, do big things, not just for our region but for our country.
I view this as a national security issue. If I’m just being honest with you and so that’s why we focused on streamlining our processes regarding new infrastructure projects since I’ve taken over as chairman. And we’ve seen results. In the past nine months, we’ve approved more infrastructure projects at FERC than in the past two years combined. And this is no small feat.
I give a lot of credit to my colleagues who’ve stepped up. I mean, we are constantly negotiating, talking, trying to make sure that we can you know, get to consensus on these projects. And I do believe from FERC’s perspective, FERC works best when we work in a bipartisan and focused on building consensus manner. And that’s what I’ve been all about.
And let me say this. That doesn’t start when you become chairman. That doesn’t start when you become a regulator. It’s how you approach your colleagues. It’s how you approach the problems of the day. And if you approach them and you say, we may not agree, all right. You know, there are things I care about that you don’t care about, or you may not care as much about, but that doesn’t make you evil. And it doesn’t make me evil either. So, let’s find where we can reach common ground and do what we both want, which is make sure we have the infrastructure that our system needs.
Todd Snitchler: Yeah, we share your appreciation for the doing and less of the talking. So, getting things done is kind of what you’re there for. And so, we’re certainly happy to see that the Commission is functional, and we’ll try to avoid some of the “Where are we going to be?” talk because who knows where that’s going to be. There are challenges in front of us today. So, from your seat, how do you think about, if you were starting from scratch, how do we secure or how do we deliver a reliable system?
I know that’s a that’s a big question with a broad set of answers. But, you know, most people tell me if I had to design it from scratch, I wouldn’t do what we’re trying to do now. But how do you view that? Would you start from scratch and say, yeah, I’d, I’d look at it different or no, I think we can build this airplane in flight.
Willie Phillips: This came up in discussion recently. We really have a system that was built for a different era. What we’re trying to do, some people say it’s, you know, drive the car and change the tire at the same time. It’s more like flying an airplane and changing the engine at the same [time].
But I do have hope. Because what I’ve tried to do is center what we’re doing at FERC around one goal, and that’s reliability. And I believe that we’ve been successful in shifting the narrative. And I think if you approach these problems, these issues – they include, you know, transmission reform. Right. If you approach it from a reliability foundation, then I think we can all agree that that’s important. And the fixes that we then promulgate from there can make more sense and be easier and find more consensus.
I think integration of new resources is a huge issue ahead of us regarding reliability. But we can’t fix this with what we have now and the technology that we have now alone. I think grid enhancing technologies, that has to have a role in what we’re doing. We’ve done stuff on ambient adjusted line ratings. We’re looking now at dynamic line ratings as an issue. We’re going to have more technical conferences, more opportunities for, you know, utilities to weigh in on where they, you know, they believe we need to go.
And I also believe that transmission reform in general, I call it the “Transmission reform journey” that we’re on. We started with interconnection queue reform. You know, we continue to look at long-term regional planning. Also cost allocation has to be a huge part of that.
The last thing I’ll say is this. When it comes to what we need for reliability, a reliable system, this FERC is focused on it. Every single month since I’ve taken over as chairman, we have taken a significant action on reliability and that will continue to be my goal.
Todd Snitchler: And that list that you just gave me is – there’s probably three third rail issues that nobody wants to touch. And you seem willing to engage on that. And I give you credit for that because the difficult problems are the ones that take the most energy, but they’re probably the ones that will help us make the most significant improvements. So, I give you credit for being willing to engage on those.
And you mentioned a couple of things that are kind of the competing priorities. So how do you think we should balance? I mean, I agree with you 100% that reliability is a non-negotiable, it’s the top of the pile. But how do you think we should balance the other competing priorities for the system? Obviously reliability, but there’s cost, there’s environmental implications, there’s political implications. There’s all kinds of things. How do you – what prism are you viewing that through? Once we all agree that reliability is first, how do we think about those competing priorities from your perspective?
Willie Phillips: Well, I think you touched on really the key, the keystone to this whole issue of balance and that’s reliability, affordability and sustainability. I think all three are important to the operation of the Commission and to the success of everything that we’re trying to do.
I say this all the time. If we cannot do what we’re trying to do regarding climate, regarding the clean energy transition, if we can’t do it affordably, we will not do it successfully.
Todd Snitchler: Right.
Willie Phillips: Moving too fast and doing things in a manner that doesn’t make sure we take care of everybody – and that especially includes the least of US environmental justice communities – we’re going to set any progress back further than anybody can imagine. No one has the patience for extreme blackouts due to the fact of poor planning. And that includes environmental organizations, that includes our political class, and certainly includes state and federal regulators, as you were and as I am now.
I’d also think that there – we need to have, around the sustainability discussion, we need to have some truth telling. You know, I say all the time, “I want to make FERC boring again.” Right? But I –
Todd Snitchler: [Laughs] That’d be great.
Willie Phillips: [Laughs] Well, I’m trying my best. But at the same time, I have to be honest with my colleagues and honest with our consumers that we’re going to have thermal resources as a part of our fuel resource mix for the foreseeable future. Even when you think about the IRA and all of the good work that the administration and Congress has done, you know, to set us up, to accelerate adoption of clean, renewable resources.
As that acceleration progresses, we’re going to have the need for more baseload, more reliable thermal resources to make sure that when, you know, the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine, we actually have the supply that we need.
That, to me, there’s no contention with saying that and also then confronting the realities that we face when it comes to climate change and the fight that we’re having there as well. Those are two parallel thoughts that need to run alongside each other.
Todd Snitchler: Yeah. You just referenced something I was going to ask you about anyway. So your timing is great. Because NERC and some of our grid operator friends have been raising the alarm, I think appropriately, about the pace of retirements and the pace of replacements and how we ensure that we have resource adequacy. And I will not drag you down into the state versus federal and how do we solve that? Because that’s another one – you’ve got enough very difficult issues. So, I’ll give you a pass on that one for the purposes of this conversation.
Willie Phillips: Thank you. Thank you.
Todd Snitchler: But as you think about some of those issues, do they concern you and you know, what steps do you think need to happen in order to make sure that we properly align the aspirational goals of policymakers and the operational realities of a system in transition?
Willie Phillips: So, I think first and foremost, we have to respect the reality on the ground. Right? And we know where the markets are taking us regarding the transition. We also know that there are states that have some very aggressive clean energy and net-zero policies that are on the books and they’re moving to those as quick as they can.
So, states do have the responsibility over resource adequacy. That’s where that falls. FERC, we have a responsibility for reliability under section 215 of the Federal Power Act. So, there’s overlap there. And what I’m trying to do, and I think that our state colleagues are trying to do the same thing, is to continue to meet and talk about where our jurisdiction overlaps. We do this in our joint state-FERC task force at NARUC. We talk about these issues.
And I think that we need to make sure that there’s someone minding the store.
We cannot simply say well, FERC has it, or the states have it. It’s going to take all of us, both of us, coming together to address this issue. And the pace of retirements, that is something that I share your concern with.
Todd Snitchler: Yes, that’s I think, cooperative federalism. The emphasis or the heavy lifting is done by “cooperative.” And I sometimes worry that we’re not having as much cooperation as maybe we used to. But we’ll address that hopefully and get us to a good conclusion on that.
As you know, we’ve raised concerns as EPSA about some of the policies and regulations and decisions, including some FERC decisions that have had impacts on markets. And of course, we are – I am duty bound to say we are supportive of a well-functioning market because we think that delivers all the things that you want us to deliver, and we certainly aim to do that.
And I know we’ve got limits about things we can talk about. So at a high level, I just want to say, how do you think, what would you say to that issue that, you know, we’re trying to achieve certain outcomes and there are decisions made at all levels that have impacts that are positive and negative.
Well, I guess maybe a different way to say it is, how would you counsel us when it comes to being more effective in seeing the outcomes that we would like to have?
Willie Phillips: So, I mean, I think it’s important to take a step back in the beginning. And let me say something with clarity.
Todd Snitchler: OK.
Willie Phillips: Markets have value. I know we hear a lot of discussion back and forth even from the dais at our open meetings that call that issue into question.
Todd Snitchler: Right.
Willie Phillips: I can speak for myself here. That is not a concern that I have. I know that they have markets. They bring us innovation. They bring us competition. I think there’re reliability benefits to our regional transmission organizations. And so, I want to – I want to put that to bed at least from Chairman Phillips’s perspective. We also know that our markets, they need reform.
Todd Snitchler: Mmhmm.
Willie Phillips: And this is something that we also have tried to address head on. We’ve been a little busy in the past nine months.
Todd Snitchler: [Laughs] You’ve had a couple things on your plate. We’ll grant you that.
Willie Phillips: Right. But in – over the summer, we had multiple forums with some of our regional entities base. And really focused on the capacity markets. And we heard from stakeholders, we heard from regional organization leaders. We also heard from our state regulators on what we need to do to address those challenges.
We’ve asked for written comments. We’re now in the process of reviewing those comments. And so, what FERC can continue to do is that we can continue to be a convener to make sure that we’re keeping these issues front and center. And there could come a time where if we aren’t seeing the progress that we need, especially when it comes to reliability, that FERC can have to step in and do something proactive. But for now, I think the best thing that we can do is to continue to work with the stakeholders to get to a resolution. I believe that we’ll get to one.
Todd Snitchler: I will share your optimism and we’ll do our level best to try to be a successful part of that. Since I’ve been giving you all the hard questions, I’ll give you an easier one now. So, there have been calls refer to look into EPA’s proposed rules on power plant emissions and how that will impact things. And of course, there are questions about does FERC even have jurisdiction or should FERC be engaged in that? Do you have an opinion at this point? I know there’s a tech conference coming up. We’re gonna have some conversation around that. I think we’re in a safe spot here. So, I just wonder if you have thoughts about that.
Willie Phillips: So, I mean, it it’s not uncommon for FERC to have, you know, provide technical assistance to our sister agencies when there’s an issue that might impact our customers, our utilities. We’ve done this in the past with other rules, like other EPA rules. You mentioned that we’re going to have a technical conference in November focused on EPA’s rules. I’m looking forward to that. We have had tremendous interest. I mean, hundreds of people have submitted their names to be witnesses at our technical conference. So, I’m excited. I’m looking forward to that discussion. I believe it’s going to be a very robust discussion. And I’m not going to get ahead of myself. What I will say is this.
We will take what we learn from that conference and we will relay it to the EPA. And it is my hope and it is my belief that if there are changes that need to be made that can help, you know, make the rules stronger and help protect the reliability of our system, I believe that EPA will view those kindly and take them under consideration.
So, I’m really excited [about] where we are, right now.
Todd Snitchler: Well, since we’re on the topic of the EPA, I’ll give you another one that maybe you maybe you want to answer and maybe you’ll regret saying yes to this. But there’s been a push for FERC to incorporate environmental considerations more heavily into some of your decision making. I’m curious if you have a view and I know I’ve heard your colleagues talk about this, I just don’t remember if I’ve heard you say anything about it so do you have a view about FERC’s role as the regulatory authority that you have and where the environmental impacts fit in your regulatory authority?
Willie Phillips: So, I mean, FERC is not an environmental regulator. Let’s start there, all right?
Todd Snitchler: Sure.
Willie Phillips: We do have responsibilities under NEPA and other statutes to consider, the environment and our view of, for example, projects and I’ve said this, every Commissioner has their own process they have to consider how they’re going to approach what they consider when it comes to the environment and to their certificate or their project level analysis and decision making.
Now, I’ve also been very clear that when it comes to environmental justice, that is a top priority for me. And this is personal. This stems from my personal experience. I grew up in an environmental justice community. I lived with heavy industrial activity all around where we grew up. And so, I also know that the benefits and the burdens with this clean energy transition that we’ve been talking about, they have not fallen evenly on everybody.
Todd Snitchler: Mmhmm.
Willie Phillips: And so, I think it’s incumbent upon us as regulators to do all we can to make sure that those people who are less fortunate than us, that they have their voice heard in a meaningful way every step of the way. And let me add one more thing.
Todd Snitchler: Sure.
Willie Phillips: If our utilities, if our gas utilities in particular take this serious and they consider environmental justice communities on the front end of a project, actually believe it’s going to help them in the long term. You will see less litigation. You will see shorter reviews when it comes to rehearing, when it comes to appeals and when cases come back to us on remand. FERC remains one of the most litigated agencies in all of government.
This right here to me, I don’t see why anybody would be against making sure that we take environmental justice communities concerns seriously and we do them early and often.
Todd Snitchler: Right. I want to ask you a question about your prior experience, your last role before you came here to FERC. Because we share a little bit of common background here. So, do you think your role as a DC Commissioner prepped you well? Was it a good fertile ground for you to be prepared for this? Or did you show up at 888 and say, “What have I gotten myself into?”
Willie Phillips: I can tell you this. Being a state Commissioner is one of the best jobs I’ve ever had. Being Chair of the D.C. Commission, you know, it’s an honor in my career. But I don’t have to tell you, Todd, when you are working on the local level, you know folks know where you live. They have your phone number, they have your cell phone, and they don’t mind expressing their opinions.
Todd Snitchler: They’re happy to reach out.
Willie Phillips: [Laughs] That’s right. Happy to reach out. And that too, that’s a good thing. I think it’s a wonderful training ground for the level of engagement and the policy decisions that you have to make on the federal level.
There’s also nothing that I believe prepares you for the amazing volume of work that just comes to FERC. I mean, we are putting out, you know, 1500-page orders to address, you know, generational issues. And so that, that is different. But the missions, they’re so similar. You know, at the state level, you’re focused on providing safe, reliable, and affordable utility service for your businesses and customers, right? We’re doing the same thing here at FERC. But we’re doing it on a nationwide level. We’re doing it with interstate policy issues. And I’m having, I’m having a lot of fun.
Todd Snitchler: Well, you make this last question I’m going to ask you really easy because of your enthusiasm. But what are you optimistic about? I mean you have listed in our, you know, brief conversation today, a bunch of really significant challenges. There are meaningful issues that have to be addressed for us to get this right. But what are you optimistic about? Because I can sense your optimism that we can get some things done. But from your seat, what are the things that you look at it and go “Boy, these are the things that I think we can get wins on.”
Willie Phillips: You know, let me start here. There are two things I did this week that really just inspired me. One, I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta and I spoke at their Elevate Day.
That that to that on that day, and I have to tell you, man, just being there, being on campus, being surrounded you know by pictures of so many successful people, but then having a chance to talk to and engage with the future.
Man, that that really gets me fired up. And then the second thing I’ll say is, I had one of our own, Karen Hertzfeld. She received an award from WECEE. The Sparks award in this for, like, young women. You know, Young Woman of the Year, if you will. And she got that award because of the work she had done at the Commission focused on interconnection queue reform, new grid enhancing technologies and all the things she’s worked on in her you know, really young career.
But being at that awards ceremony. And seeing all of the young women, seeing the students, the first-year attorneys, the new engineers, who were coming up to me and they wanted to tell me how they were going to help change the world and address all the issues we have, and just the overall focus that we see on diversity, equity and inclusion.
You know. That pipeline that we see of new talent, diverse talent coming into our industry. That’s all the hope I need. I know that we’re going to do everything we can to solve our problems and I think we’re doing a great job. But what gives me hope is that the folks coming up behind us, they’re the ones that are going to really get it done.
And that’s amazing.
Todd Snitchler: Well, they’re going to stand on the shoulders of people like you that are in the roles that you’re in today. So, with that, I will give you back your time. Mr. Chairman, we really appreciate your willingness to have a conversation with us and to kind of share a little bit about your thinking about a lot of very important issues. And we, of course, enjoy our working relationship with you. We know that we’re one of many stakeholders, but we certainly appreciate the work that goes on and we appreciate your leadership and helping get things done at FERC.
Willie Phillips: Thank you. Thank you, Todd, and thank you for your leadership. Thank you for your friendship over the many years. And I tell you your, you know, members, they are very lucky to have a person like you at the helm. And I know you’re going to continue to do great work.
[Energy Solutions theme music plays.]
Todd Snitchler: There’s no shortage of work to be done. Check out our website, epsa.org, for more updates on the issues discussed during this interview – including updates from FERC’s Reliability Technical Conference and the Winter Storm Elliott report. And as always, subscribe to this podcast for more in-depth interviews with the leading voices in energy today.
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